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Liverpool v United 
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Dave wrote:
He's had one game against Liverpool where he's not performed to the standard he has earlier in the season but neither did Van der Sar or Ronaldo.

His other poor game was against Bolton but lets face it, nobody turned up for that one.

It's certainly a big over-reaction and I personally feel that it's stemmed from the contract negotiations as he's not played poorly consistency and people like Ronaldo and Giggs have disappeared from far more games than Brown has this season.


Amen to that. Poor performance granted. Not giving a shit, ridiculous.


Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:07 pm
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:roll:

In your eyes he put in the effort required for a game against Liverpool. In mine he didn't come anywhere near that. To me he didn't seem remotely motivated. I also mentioned Giggs and Ronaldo when criticising players. But I don't think he just had a poor performance. It was an awful performance. It was sloppy, his tracking back was poor at best and he put his teamates under pressure on more than one occasion. Thats not over the top. Its not ridiculous. Its a difference of opinion. Why you've all reacted like you're mortally offended by this kind of view I don't know. Players performances have been criticised in the past so you are all just as guilty of factoring in his contract negotiations when discussing his performance and people's opinions on it as anyone else who has mentioned it. I can categorically say that I don't think his performance was linked to his contract dispute. I did however say it didn't help his cause and I don't believe it did. I've never been his biggest fan anyway so its true when I say I won't miss him if he goes.

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Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:21 pm
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Doddy7 wrote:
I find the comments made against Brown very harsh. I think the problem with the contract he has been offered, will probably be that of a squad player and Wes will rightly be thinking of himself as a first team player.
It’s probably his last major contract of his career and he’s been at the club along time; so he’s looking at players coming in who are probably on more money than he is and thinking I deserve a bit of that.
You can’t blame him really wanting a contract more inline with other players, can you?


I still stand by this.

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Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:45 pm
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Doddy7 wrote:
Doddy7 wrote:
I find the comments made against Brown very harsh. I think the problem with the contract he has been offered, will probably be that of a squad player and Wes will rightly be thinking of himself as a first team player.
It’s probably his last major contract of his career and he’s been at the club along time; so he’s looking at players coming in who are probably on more money than he is and thinking I deserve a bit of that.
You can’t blame him really wanting a contract more inline with other players, can you?


I still stand by this.


I can understand a player wanting more money. But if it came down to less being offered and you had to a) be grateful what for what you do get paid or b) leave solely over money then I know what I would do if it was me. I would play for United for £20k a week rather than Liverpool for £100k a week- wouldn't you?

Anyway, this is all speculation, no idea if Brown's dispute is just about money.


Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:06 pm
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Thats fine Doddy. I get what you're saying and I applaud all the defending he is getting on that issue as no one really knows what he thinks. But what has that got to do with the opinion that he played absolutely awful (IMO) on Sunday and that if there is any game to get motivated for it is Liverpool. Most of the match reviews I have read seem to agree with this and have said he was our worst player by far on Sunday. Those comments are not very harsh. They are deserved. We were discussing the game not his season so far and not his contract talks.

I think what has happened here is that people have jumped to conclusions over this contract thing and it's created a big fuss about nothing. Some may think it was linked to his performance. And some may think those who criticised him did so only because of his current situation.

Put it this way- would I still think he played shit and put no effort in on Sunday even if his contract was not up for renewal?- Yes. Without question. I'm not being biased when it comes to this. For instance I don't like Rio, but I look beyond that to give him praise where I think he deserves it.
Would others still have criticised him- I don't know is the honest answer. Only they can answer that but I know Darren and Shaun and I think I wouldn't be far wrong if I said that they still would have criticised him.

Would all of his defenders be as adamant about the criticism in the same circumstances?

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Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:17 pm
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Oli wrote:
Doddy7 wrote:
Doddy7 wrote:
I find the comments made against Brown very harsh. I think the problem with the contract he has been offered, will probably be that of a squad player and Wes will rightly be thinking of himself as a first team player.
It’s probably his last major contract of his career and he’s been at the club along time; so he’s looking at players coming in who are probably on more money than he is and thinking I deserve a bit of that.
You can’t blame him really wanting a contract more inline with other players, can you?


I still stand by this.


I can understand a player wanting more money. But if it came down to less being offered and you had to a) be grateful what for what you do get paid or b) leave solely over money then I know what I would do if it was me. I would play for United for £20k a week rather than Liverpool for £100k a week- wouldn't you?

Anyway, this is all speculation, no idea if Brown's dispute is just about money.


I do think though that if push comes to shove he'll sign anyway and that is probably why United have said they won't negotiate.

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Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:52 pm
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Doddy7 wrote:
Maybe just maybe Brown was suffering from playing most of this season and not having a rest. He's expected to run up and down the right side all game, supporting the attack and then getting back quickly. Perhaps it has caught up with him and before you say he’s a professional athlete he should be able to do this all day every day, that’s bollocks as he’s still only human. And I also know Evra does it very well, but I would imagine Browns size makes it that much more difficult.


I also think this might be the reason for Sundays performance.

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Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:54 pm
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Blaze wrote:
:roll:

In your eyes he put in the effort required for a game against Liverpool. In mine he didn't come anywhere near that. To me he didn't seem remotely motivated. I also mentioned Giggs and Ronaldo when criticising players. But I don't think he just had a poor performance. It was an awful performance. It was sloppy, his tracking back was poor at best and he put his teamates under pressure on more than one occasion. Thats not over the top. Its not ridiculous. Its a difference of opinion. Why you've all reacted like you're mortally offended by this kind of view I don't know. Players performances have been criticised in the past so you are all just as guilty of factoring in his contract negotiations when discussing his performance and people's opinions on it as anyone else who has mentioned it. I can categorically say that I don't think his performance was linked to his contract dispute. I did however say it didn't help his cause and I don't believe it did. I've never been his biggest fan anyway so its true when I say I won't miss him if he goes.


this is the last i'm going to say on the matter Blaze, you'll be thankful to hear.

1. It is not ridiculous that you've critisized Brown's performance, and it is not ridiculous that anyone else has. It is a ridiculous (IMO) suggestion that he was totally disinterested, or didn't try, or he put no effort in, or he didn't give one, or even two shits, which has been the unwelcome (IMO) sentiment of the criticism of his performance against Liverpool in this thread, NOT that he just had a bad game - i think we're all in agreement that he had a shocker.

2. I can't speak for anyone else but i suspect that no one is mortally offended by people saying that about Brown, they are just comments that are worthy of addressing if you think that it is wrong. What 's wrong with that? It is equally ok to defend a player as ciritisize one surely? No one likes to hear our players being unfairly ciritisized, and plenty of players have had stick on here, and the same get defended if people see fit?


Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:29 pm
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I'd also like to criticise Wesley for being Ginger. That's probably why he had a bad game. Not because he wasn't interested, he probably just saw something shiny in the stand that distracted him. You know what Gingers are like.


Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:40 pm
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Jonesy wrote:
I'd also like to criticise Wesley for being Ginger. That's probably why he had a bad game. Not because he wasn't interested, he probably just saw something shiny in the stand that distracted him. You know what Gingers are like.

Seconded... :lol:


Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:42 pm
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Meh. Lets move on from this. It was a bit silly for us all to stick to our guns so vehemently. Jonesy I never realised you were so racist.:wink:

On a lighter, less anally retentive note- I heard the chants from United supporters on Sunday about the recent spate of robberies involving Liverpool were quite entertaining. Oli is your fansview up yet?

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Last edited by Blaze on Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:44 pm
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Hehe, I know, just don't get me started on the Welsh :D


Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:21 pm
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Blaze wrote:
Oli is your fansview up yet?


It's available here...

http://www.manutdnews.co.uk/?p=158

Sorry, I should keep on top of these more and post them on here once Oli's made them available :oops:

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Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:46 am
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:roll: Disgraceful. I suppose you've dyed your hair ginger and all now. :wink: This Wes Brown syndrome is catching.


Cheers Dave!

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Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:38 am
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