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Liverpool v United 
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Hungry like the Wolf
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Disagree!!

When Nev is fully fit, he will return to the team IMO.
Brown has played very well this season (with exception of Sunday), but the amount of effort, strength and leadership qualities Nev brings onto the pitch is something very few can match.


I don't think we'll see Gary this season.

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Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:45 pm
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UH! forget it. Lets all hold hands, drink Red Cafe Coffee (to fund that nice old man, Uncle Mal's bank account) and praise the team and the club no matter what. I always thought this place should be more like ManUtd.com or whatever the official message board is calling itself these days.....Criticism is bad mm'kay? Rio's the best defender in the world. Ronaldo is handsome so that makes up for any time he dives, plays not so well etc. Wes played like that to give the other players a chance to run around a bit. How considerate of him really.

I may even start calling United MAN U. :roll:

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Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:11 pm
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Great result, not a great performance but they rarely are in those games. It was a big 3 points, especially after they were really confident about beating us. Devensively we were magnificent, Rio and Vidic were absolutely suberb, along with our central midfielders.

Brown had a bad game, but has done very well all season, so not going to get on his back just yet, we'll see how he plays in the coming weeks.


Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:15 pm
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hetixo wrote:
He is playing out of position. as mentioned before, he is not a player that has been brought up being expected to raid up and down the wing, and has had one or two bad games this season, but overall, he has done a good job in our Captain's absence.

Are you insinuating that he would play better if he moved a few yards to the left? :wink: :lol:
To say that Vidic and Ferdinand save Wes Browns ass time and again would be a masterpiece of understatement.
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What exactly are people meaning when they say 'he looks like he doesn't give a shit'?

For me, it's when he makes a shit pass or misses a tackle and just sort of stands there and watches the consequences. It's like he couldn't give two shits about the mistake. If that's what you call a "relaxed" playing style, you can fucking keep it! Were he my player, they would have had spend several hours of surgery to remove my boot from his ass...
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Does anyone really think that if he was trying to hhold the club to ransom over contract negotiations that he'd 'not turn up' or 'not give a shit' about playing well against arguably our biggest rivals.

I think it's possible. We don't know exactly what is going on in those negotiations. Chances are that we have a "pouting" player on our hands. Of course, I don't know that to be fact, but it would stand to reason and explain a great deal wouldn't it?? It's no secret that he's not the brightest bulb on the string...
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HE HAD A SHIT GAME. IT HAPPENS. GET OFF HIS BACK.

I call 'em like I see 'em. I have never been a big fan of Wes Brown. He has done fairly well this season, I will admit that. Perhaps he was nursing a bug on Sunday? But, I still hold my breath when the run of play is near him...


Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:48 pm
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Personally I think Wes Brown has adapted his game very well. He’s very strong in the tackle and when he sees a 50/50 ball you can’t call him anything else but committed. Some of the challenges he’s put in this season have had me wincing, let alone the player being tackled!
He’s not the most comfortable player on the ball, but his attacking play has got better and better. He’s playing well down the right hand side if you ask me.
He supports Ronaldo at every opportunity and is also quick at getting back.
I must have missed something when he’s not been committed, as to me he always looks committed.

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Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:22 pm
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I dont really agree with or understand the abuse directed at Wes Brown. He isnt the first and wont be the last player to have contractual disputes. Its his last big contract and i'm sure he'll want regular first team football aswell as being payed inline with those who play in the first team. Cant really say he's being unreasonable. Some fans will now start to look for things on and off the pitch to use as a stick to beat him with.
For me, he wasnt great at the weekend, but neither were Ronaldo, Rooney or Giggs. He's never been a right back in my opinion but he's made a decent effort of it this season. Occasionally he will look like a square peg in a round hole, but the one thing i have never doubted is his commitment. Hopefully the contract will be sorted soon and then im sure people will get off his back.


Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:11 pm
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Image

That look like a player who doesn't give a shit does it? Ending up in the Mickey's dugout from chasing a ball down?

The comparison to Rio is bollocks. We KNEW Rio was demanding more money, after he had not long spent 7 months out for not pissing in a bottle. This means no matter how good a player he'll never count as a Red in my eyes. But Wes? A kid who's known nothing but United his whole playing life has a sketchy game and suddenly he's being villified by his own support. Who knows for a fact why he had an off day? Could it be that Liverpool turned into a long ball team, rather than that he's suddenly some mercenary twat like wobbly gob?

Benefit of the doubt, please, for christs sake.


Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:19 pm
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Blaze wrote:
UH! forget it. Lets all hold hands, drink Red Cafe Coffee (to fund that nice old man, Uncle Mal's bank account) and praise the team and the club no matter what. I always thought this place should be more like ManUtd.com or whatever the official message board is calling itself these days.....Criticism is bad mm'kay? Rio's the best defender in the world. Ronaldo is handsome so that makes up for any time he dives, plays not so well etc. Wes played like that to give the other players a chance to run around a bit. How considerate of him really.

I may even start calling United MAN U. :roll:


You're already drinking the Red Cafe coffee, hence the original reference i made that you are now laughably repeating. You are underlining my point Blaze, that your comments are more appropriate in the Red Cafe, or Manutd.com than they are here.

Your comments about Brown 'not giving a shit' are, without doubt, on the same level as saying that Ronaldo is the most handsome player we've got. They're without substance and without any real informed opinion about the game, and that goes for anyone else who's saying the same thing.

Stop fuelling yourslef with the 'idea of United' and maybe start studying the game and it's complexities.

Darren.

Fletch plays slightly out of position and he's defended to the hilt about poor performances - that being a personal annoyance of mine - that's what you're getting at, right? Well, Brown has played out of position and PLAYED WELL CONSISTENTLY this season with a couple of blips - which you expect if you're not in your usual place. Fletch played consistently poorly out of position and those performances were defended because of that. Had he been in a [laughable] contract dispute at the time no doubt i would have had a lot more people on my side by the sounds.

"For me, it's when he makes a shit pass or misses a tackle and just sort of stands there and watches the consequences. It's like he couldn't give two shits about the mistake. If that's what you call a "relaxed" playing style, you can fucking keep it! Were he my player, they would have had spend several hours of surgery to remove my boot from his ass..."

How do you know he doesn't give two shits? Some players have the engines to chase things down endlessly, and as i said before, we're blessed with them, but Wes is a centre half at heart who is used to winning things in the air and blocking - he has the added quality of not panicking at the heart of defence which adimittedly he has to apply some urgency to at times, but he is not a terrier or warrior like Heinze was. Wes is out wide in a place where he's doing a far better job than most players do out of position.

"I think it's possible. We don't know exactly what is going on in those negotiations. Chances are that we have a "pouting" player on our hands. Of course, I don't know that to be fact, but it would stand to reason and explain a great deal wouldn't it?? It's no secret that he's not the brightest bulb on the string... "

With all due respect Darren. Rubbish. He's in no position at United not to put in 100%, no one is. And the fact that his contract is in negotiation means that he has to earn anything he's trying to get. What evidence do you have to suggest that he's not bright? Yet another bizarre observation of someone who i've watched regularly in interviews and who seems to have more grasp of United's team ethic that you're so enthused about, than others i could mention.

"I have never been a big fan of Wes Brown. He has done fairly well this season, I will admit that. Perhaps he was nursing a bug on Sunday? But, I still hold my breath when the run of play is near him..."

Me neither. But on a site that seems to have a groundswell of opinion about the integrity of players who 'pull on a jersey' for United, or 'play with their heart on their sleeve' or 'are the salt of the earth' or whatever ridiculous cliches you want to bandy about, Wes Brown does not deserve to be labelled as someone who is in it just for the ride.

It is the awkwardness of being a United supporter that such players come under such stick from fellow suopporters that really bothers me.

I have questioned Fletcher's ability because, plain and simple, it is there to be questioned, but never his commitment because i don't ever expect a player to be in the United side with that falibility. You deserve a place in the team because of your ability, not just your commitment. Right now, we have no better right back, and he's done a good job in deputising for Neville on the whole so i think the criticism is ridiculous.



[/i][/b]


Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:02 pm
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hetixo wrote:
your comments are more appropriate in the Red Cafe, or Manutd.com than they are here.


criticising Brown's lack of effort in this game are hardly only worthy of forums such as ManUtd.com. Saying you should get off his back when he has in fact delivered a pi** poor performance is perfect for those kinds of forums.
If you wanna have a go at me, fine, but at least try to put an actual argument across as opposed to that drivel. He did have a shit game. He didn't put much if any effort into it. I doubt he purposely played shit because of his dispute but that won't do him any favours with the powers that be. You seem to think this contract issue is the crux of my argument and you couldn't be more wrong. You're pissed off with what other's have said about him sulking or angering people in relation to his contract dispute and have for some reason vented your dislike for the comments in my direction when not only have I not posted them, but I haven't even said I agreed with them.


Quote:
Your comments about Brown 'not giving a shit' are, without doubt, on the same level as saying that Ronaldo is the most handsome player we've got. They're without substance and without any real informed opinion about the game, and that goes for anyone else who's saying the same thing.


See AGAIN, what you've done here is you've taken what someone else has actually said and then made out as if I said that. I never said the words "not giving a shit", now did I? I said in this game he looked as if he lacked motivation, he didn't put in enough effort and he look disinterested and yes, he did. He trotted back after he gave away the ball on several occasions. Now would you call that putting in effort? He won't get what he is looking for from United by playing like that.

Quote:
Stop fuelling yourslef with the 'idea of United' and maybe start studying the game and it's complexities.


Stop fuelling your arguments with ignorant assumptions and maybe start reading what people actually say instead of misquoting them and putting words in their mouths-so to speak. You just make yourself look silly.

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Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:46 pm
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Blaze, Hetixo get a room! :lol:

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Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:25 pm
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Seriously...don't go there. Its not a nice place.lol.
I have no problem with people disagreeing with me on this issue. I already said I expected it. What I didn't expect was for someone to take what other people have said and then make out as if those were my words and my argument and then go on to offer me advice on looking at complexities of the game or whatever bullshit he spouted. Its nonsensical.

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Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:52 pm
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We win at Anfield and this is what gets debated.

Come on guys, let's have a chant of ARGENTINA instead....!


Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:12 pm
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On that note I must say how impressed I am with Tevez. He's been superb. Great buy. Fergie seems to have that magic touch back in relation to signings.

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Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:30 pm
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Jonesy wrote:
Image

That look like a player who doesn't give a shit does it? Ending up in the Mickey's dugout from chasing a ball down?

Nope. Looks like he's either looking for his hubcaps or the keys to his motor. That's as good a place to start as any, and yet he managed to fall over a 12 inch wall...clumsy bastard... :lol:


Last edited by Darren on Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:50 am
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Oli wrote:
Menace wrote:
Don't agree with the criticism of Brown at this point. I mean, c'mon, we're supposed to be decent Reds, leave the fickle shit to the Ingurland boys. As long as he gives 100% every time he puts the United shirt on I don't care if he eventually moves on to another club.


So it was fickle when pretty much every red in the away end booed Rio? No it was fucking not. To watch a player take for granted an opportunity to play for United, something we all would give so much to do, does not warrant applause and clapping them.



Totally wrong to compare Brown's situation with Rio's IMO.

Rio was being a heartless cunt who clearly was holding the club to ransom even after United had supported him during his ban. He also was offered an outstanding deal that would have made him one of the top earners in European football. He deserved the bad reaction he rightfully received.

However, Wes' situation may be different, we just don't know. Its most likely going to be the last contract of his career and he must be looking around at the young kids coming through that will clearly threaten his chances of regular football. If the club are taking the piss and offering him peanuts after the loyalty he's showed down the years then he has every right to take a step-back. The thing is, Rio's situation was well documented, and he was being a prick. But we just don't know the intricacies of Brown's situation at the moment to warrant this level of anger.


Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:59 am
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Blaze wrote:
What the f*ck was Wes Brown doing? He looked totally disinterested. So long a**h*le. I'm sure some of you like him but I hate it when players don't put any effort in...


Some great introspection there. In summary, you think he doesn't give a shit, or is totally disinterested, or doesn't put any effort in. Don't argue with me about semantics Blaze, or else you really will look silly.

Concerning your comments about singling you out and not reading posts....

Hetixo wrote:
Your comments about Brown 'not giving a shit' are, without doubt, on the same level as saying that Ronaldo is the most handsome player we've got. They're without substance and without any real informed opinion about the game, and that goes for anyone else who's saying the same thing.


Clearly not just aimed at you, but an understandable reaction from someone with such humility.


Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:19 am
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hetixo, you are full of more bullshit than a Christmas turkey. End of. :lol:


Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:26 am
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Darren wrote:
hetixo, you are full of more bullshit than a Christmas turkey. End of. :lol:


Darren. Wouldn't want to eat turkey at your house if that's what you stuff it with. Nice metaphor! :shock:


Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:36 am
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:lol:


Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:43 am
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He's had one game against Liverpool where he's not performed to the standard he has earlier in the season but neither did Van der Sar or Ronaldo.

His other poor game was against Bolton but lets face it, nobody turned up for that one.

It's certainly a big over-reaction and I personally feel that it's stemmed from the contract negotiations as he's not played poorly consistency and people like Ronaldo and Giggs have disappeared from far more games than Brown has this season.

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