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Liverpool v United 
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Blaze wrote:
What the f*ck was Wes Brown doing? He looked totally disinterested. So long a**h*le. I'm sure some of you like him but I hate it when players don't put any effort in and his pi** poor attempt at a throw summed up his performance. Abysmal.


totally agree with this, let the fucker go if he is not gonna care for the club. he looked as if he didnt give a shit out there.

ronaldo and giggs weren't great, anderson and hargreaves were brilliant. along with evra, vidic and rio.

i was getting so annoyed in the second half when we just kept heading the ball back to liverpool.


Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:23 pm
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Blaze wrote:
What the f*ck was Wes Brown doing? He looked totally disinterested. So long a**h*le. I'm sure some of you like him but I hate it when players don't put any effort in and his pi** poor attempt at a throw summed up his performance. Abysmal.

Yep, he'll look good as a barcode at that rate. So much potential and is thick as pigshit.
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Rio was great-deserved MOTM award. Thought the two lads in centre mid were fantastic. Really gelling together now. Rooney and Tevez- what can you add really? Great link up for the goal.

Hargreaves was MOTM for me. A calming influence in the centre of midfield playing box to box. Rio held it together at the back, and Vidic is...well...just a superb player. I love that player!!
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Ronaldo and Giggs really may as well have gone home at half time. Contributed very little IMO. Giggs was a bit better than Ronnie but it is worrying that Ronaldo still doesn't really show up for the big games.
To be fair, Ronaldo had 3 players on him whenever he touched the ball. Trouble is that he hasn't figured out what he needs to do when that happens. "If there are 3 players defending you Ronaldo, then there are two people on the pitch that are un-marked" Simple son...
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I love beating the bin dippers at their home ground.

Agreed. But, then again, I love beating them anywhere!!
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Shame about the Arsenal result but hey, our own result is enough to keep me happy!

No worries, they still have to visit Old Trafford after games against Chelski and Liverpool. They will have no easy time of it. A long way to go just yet...


Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:16 pm
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Great win, and a really good performance. Rio was immense, he was faster, stronger and sharper than Torres and always looked in total control. It was as comfortable a win as you'll see at anfield, liverpool only really looked threatening from free-kicks and through VDS errors. Ronaldo is probably the only disappointment for me. In the big games he tends to revert back to his old ways of trying to do too much instead of keeping it simple and waiting for his opportunity to attack his man. Only a minor gripe though, he's been fantastic for the most part over the last 18 months.


Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:54 pm
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Ronnie will learn. He'll have to.

As for Wes Brown, lets just hang on with the "get the fuck out" cries shall we. As much as people are lauding Rio today (rightly so) it wasn't long ago he was damn near public enemy number 1 in the eyes of most Reds.

Wes is doing himself no favours at all, granted, but while he wears that shirt he gets my support.


Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:05 am
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Jonesy wrote:
Ronnie will learn. He'll have to.

As for Wes Brown, lets just hang on with the "get the fuck out" cries shall we. As much as people are lauding Rio today (rightly so) it wasn't long ago he was damn near public enemy number 1 in the eyes of most Reds.

Wes is doing himself no favours at all, granted, but while he wears that shirt he gets my support.


Ronaldo was carrying a knock. Also, whilst they put 3 men on him it means others are unmarked- so it works either way.

Rio- great player but still have not sung his name since the transfer saga. Wes Brown did himself no favours today and is close to angering a lot of people.


Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:12 am
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I don't agree with the criticism of Brown. As far as I can gather, he is - probably rightly - assuming that when Neville gets fit he'll lose his place, and has been usurped as third choice centre back by Pique, so at the age of 28 - much like Phil Neville - feels he may have to move on to further his career.

As for his performance today, I didn't see him pull out of any tackles, nor did I think he had a particularly poor game. If the criticism amounts to the fact that he accidentally messed up a single throw-in, I find that extremely harsh. If he does indeed leave in January, I'll be sad to see him go, as he's been at the club all his career.

The game itself was as dull as these games always are, but another terrific three points. We've now got four - Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton and City - of the toughest away fixtures out of the way, and a fortnight ago would've been delighted to come out of this spell only a point behind Arsenal.

Ferdinand and Vidic were absolutely colossal, and are well on their way to becoming the best centre-back pairing we've had. And the two central midfielders were the other standouts for me.


Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:47 am
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I find the comments made against Brown very harsh. I think the problem with the contract he has been offered, will probably be that of a squad player and Wes will rightly be thinking of himself as a first team player.
It’s probably his last major contract of his career and he’s been at the club along time; so he’s looking at players coming in who are probably on more money than he is and thinking I deserve a bit of that.
You can’t blame him really wanting a contract more inline with other players, can you?

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Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:21 am
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he had a poor game. he looked disinterested. hence my criticism of him. it was united versus fucking liverpool! was nothing to do with a bad throw, it was a bad 90 minutes from him all round.


Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:30 am
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Brown had an average game but every player has their poor performances even in the big games occasionally and as long as it isn't an extended run of poor form then I don't have a problem with Wes.

He's been in fantastic form in the early part of the season and has looked the part alongside Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra up until yesterday and I'm sure that he knows that his place isn't secure and he can quite easily be replaced by the likes of O'Shea or Simpson if his standard drops.

Personally, I thought Van der Sar coming for crosses and not communicating with his back four during the game was a far bigger worry than Wes' performance. Ronaldo also did next to nothing for 90mins but it's a team game, we did enough to come away with the three points and as long as these players raise their game for the next few fixtures, I won't be concerned in the slightest.

As for Brown's contract, we don't know all the ins and outs so probably can't comment too much. Maybe he wants guaranteed first team football at the likes of Everton or Newcastle, maybe it's a money issue but either way, he's been a great servant to the club and if he plays well when called upon for the remainder of the season and then decides to move on, I'll have no qualms.

The game itself, the tactics were spot on and apart from VDS's few dodgy moments, we looked in complete control at the back. The freekicks we were giving away and Babel's effort were always a worry but the second half they never really got behind us and were just pumping long balls into the box or shooting from distance which never really troubled us.

Vidic and Ferdinand were quality but I thought Anderson was also lively and did really well against Gerrard.

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Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:24 am
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Dave wrote:
Vidic and Ferdinand were quality but I thought Anderson was also lively and did really well against Gerrard.


Anderson at 19 years old with little experience has now had the better of Fabregas and Gerrard. Class.


Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:21 pm
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Criticism of Brown is way OTT. He had a poor game distribution-wise, but echo Neil's comments about never shirking a tackle. Without Gary Neville all season, Wes has played out of position and thus far has done a more than average job there. Some of you need to extend your memories beyond the last 90 minutes of football.

In what respect was he 'disinterested'? Bollocks. None of us know the details of his contract negotiations so he shouldn't be judged on that, and thus far this season his contribution has been good in my opinion.

Central defensive pairing were brilliant, as were the two in centre midfield. Wazza and Tevez were impressive again.

Happy Days.


Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:11 pm
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hetixo wrote:
Criticism of Brown is way OTT. He had a poor game distribution-wise, but echo Neil's comments about never shirking a tackle. Without Gary Neville all season, Wes has played out of position and thus far has done a more than average job there. Some of you need to extend your memories beyond the last 90 minutes of football.

In what respect was he 'disinterested'? Bollocks. None of us know the details of his contract negotiations so he shouldn't be judged on that, and thus far this season his contribution has been good in my opinion.

Central defensive pairing were brilliant, as were the two in centre midfield. Wazza and Tevez were impressive again.

Happy Days.


Brown has had a great season apart from at Bolton and Anfield where he was shocking.

Only he knows whether his performances have been affected by contract talks.


Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:46 pm
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I loved how Rooney got the better of Carragher in each aerial battle. Towards the end Carragher looked battered as he'd been dropped to the ground more times than any defender of his stature should have been.


I thought for a moment the ref might lose control of the match, a lot of personal battles, which is brilliant of course, ups the intensity.

Any repercussions for Fergie for coming to the touch line after that horrible tackle on Ronaldo?

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Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:46 pm
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Sarthak wrote:

Any repercussions for Fergie for coming to the touch line after that horrible tackle on Ronaldo?


No


Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:02 pm
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Don't agree with the criticism of Brown at this point. I mean, c'mon, we're supposed to be decent Reds, leave the fickle shit to the Ingurland boys. As long as he gives 100% every time he puts the United shirt on I don't care if he eventually moves on to another club.

Granted, he didn't have the best of games, but neither did Ronaldo, Giggs Van Der Sar or Rooney. Brown shouldn't be picked out simply because he's having a contract dispute.

I'm delighted with the result though, a win at Anfield is like a little chunk of gold to savour for the whole season. So sweet.

Tevez looks like a United player and should be tied down to a permanent deal ASAP. Hargreaves is proving his worth as the best holding midfielder in Europe and Anderson is on his way to becoming a phenomenal player. Oli pointed out that he's outplayed both Gerrard and Fabregas already this season. Its scary to think how much better he's gonna get when he starts learning from the soon to be fit Paul Scholes.

Final word on Rio though. He's never been our most popular player, but you can't fault his quality. When he combines his concentration fully with his ability then he is the best centre-back on the planet. So cool under pressure and oozes a calm leadership at the back that seems to filter througout the team. I do sing his name.


Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:51 am
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Menace wrote:
Don't agree with the criticism of Brown at this point. I mean, c'mon, we're supposed to be decent Reds, leave the fickle shit to the Ingurland boys. As long as he gives 100% every time he puts the United shirt on I don't care if he eventually moves on to another club.


So it was fickle when pretty much every red in the away end booed Rio? No it was fucking not. To watch a player take for granted an opportunity to play for United, something we all would give so much to do, does not warrant applause and clapping them.

If a player wants out, then fair enough. Plenty of players have given their all and then moved on to other challenges, and we are not fans to boo them on their return or do anything but thank them for their contributions (Ince aside!). Nicky Butt etc would get nothing but warm applause on a return to play against us. If Brown wants to move then fine, do so quietly, but if this over money then he can fuck himself.

I do not know the situation with Brown so I would not boo him at the moment, but IF he is holding the club to ransom then he can go fuck himself, as Rio should have done when he tried it.

For the moment I will judge him on his performances only and for most of this season they have been great. But if the last few bad showings continue, and speculation mounts over him leaving, then it may be time for him to leave on a bad note.


Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:04 am
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Menace wrote:
Don't agree with the criticism of Brown at this point. I mean, c'mon, we're supposed to be decent Reds, leave the fickle shit to the Ingurland boys. As long as he gives 100% every time he puts the United shirt on I don't care if he eventually moves on to another club.

Granted, he didn't have the best of games, but neither did Ronaldo, Giggs Van Der Sar or Rooney. Brown shouldn't be picked out simply because he's having a contract dispute.


Menace I understand what you are saying but the reason I criticised him was not because of his contract talks- it was the complete lack of effort he put into the game against LIVERPOOL of all teams. Just seemed he lacked motivation and if a player can't get motivated for that kind of game then they really can f*ck off. I don't care who they are. It also just happens that he is in the middle of contract talks. Going by that lack of effort- I wouldn't miss him and I'm sure the club would think the same in that they would not offer any improved terms so he's not doing himself any favours- see what I mean? Rooney had an OK game. Giggs and Ronnie didn't have great games either IMO but at least I saw effort from them. Whereas Brown lost the ball after some sloppy play and then he just strolled back leaving Rio and co to sort out his mess. That is NOT ok with me.
There's a time and a place to keep the red tinted glasses on and blind faith has never really been my kind of thing tbh. I wouldn't boo him as I would not boo the shirt but it doesn't mean I have to ignore his faults either. I don't like Rio but I'm happy to say I think he deserved the MOTM.

I guess if a player really wants to stay at United they should put a bit more effort in. 100% all the time. Brown didn't give anything near that on Sunday. I've always been of the opinion that I can't criticise a player if he gives it his all but things go against him. If he was carrying a knock or something then I'll gladly take back what I said. Otherwise he needs to buck up his ideas or book his ticket to Newcastle/Sunderland now because he's not going to get a better contract going by that performance.

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Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:18 am
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Maybe just maybe Brown was suffering from playing most of this season and not having a rest. He's expected to run up and down the right side all game, supporting the attack and then getting back quickly. Perhaps it has caught up with him and before you say he’s a professional athlete he should be able to do this all day every day, that’s bollocks as he’s still only human. And I also know Evra does it very well, but I would imagine Browns size makes it that much more difficult.
And as I said before maybe he just wants a contract inline with other first team players; he’s been waiting in the wings a few years and got his first team chance and I think he’s taken it. Gary will find it very hard getting back in the team.
So if he does want a bit more money, (more inline with other first team players) then I wouldn’t be to upset with him.

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Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:37 am
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[quote="Doddy7"] Gary will find it very hard getting back in the team.
quote]

Disagree!!

When Nev is fully fit, he will return to the team IMO.
Brown has played very well this season (with exception of Sunday), but the amount of effort, strength and leadership qualities Nev brings onto the pitch is something very few can match.

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Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:30 am
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WAKE UP AND SMELL THE RED CAFE COFFEE!

I remember when Steve Ovett, Steve Cram and Seb Coe were all running the same distances at the highest level, all with coMpletely different running styles. Coe glided effortlessly across the track, Ovett was simiilar but looked as if he was putting his soul into it, and Cram klooked like he was going to burst into tears busting a bollock. They were all fantastic runners and they ALL GAVE A SHIT.

We are extremely lucky to have players like Tevez, Rooney, and Hargreaves in the team, and we [eventually] will have paid through the nose for them because of thhose and other qualities. They have incredible engines and it seems that in the way they play, they are wearing their heart on their sleeves because of the amount of ground they cover etc.

We simply cannot have that kind of player playing in every position. It is a plebian and uninformed view of the game to assume that we can have a roy of the rovers individual in every area of the park.

Daly, McilRoy, Olsen, Veron, Carrick, Ferdinand etc etc - Our team has always had players with a relaxed way of playing, along with the likes of Stiles, Moses, Robson, Moran, Ince who provide the engines and the steel.

It's about having a blend, not having the same type of player in every position like some of you are expecting to see.

WES BROWN

He is playing out of position. as mentioned before, he is not a player that has been brought up being expected to raid up and down the wing, and has had one or two bad games this season, but overall, he has done a good job in our Captain's absence.

What exactly are people meaning when they say 'he looks like he doesn't give a shit'?

They guy can't help the way he looks, his expressions are what he was born with, and his playing style is a relaxed one.

Does anyone really think that if he was trying to hhold the club to ransom over contract negotiations that he'd 'not turn up' or 'not give a shit' about playing well against arguably our biggest rivals.

HE HAD A SHIT GAME. IT HAPPENS. GET OFF HIS BACK.


Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:42 pm
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